Debate with a Seventh Day Adventist on Predestination Christopher Cunningham VS Don De Bono

Recently I was challenged on Facebook by a Seventh Day Adventist to debate on the issue of Predestination and the bible the following is the exchange that took place. There were brief moments were I became agitated with my oponent and lost my temper but I feel I was able to position soundly.

Don De Bono (Negative)

Christopher Cunningham (affirmitive)


Don De Bono Calvinists use the absence of freewill to justify their love of sin, so they can listen to music and watch movies that depict sin, grow their hair, live like the world. i have the freewill to turn the TV off!

Christopher Cunningham no don that’s a straw man argument. First off you stated Calvinism denies man hope of salvation this is false. God draws people to salvation via his son Jesus John 6:37-44 all the father draws will come to repentance and saving faith Ezekiel 36:-26 and he uses the foolishness of preaching to do it. Also show me one Calvinist who is happy to be in sin sanctification is a process Phil 1:6 we make mistakes along the way but God grows us and we put these things to death Colossians 3:5.

Don De Bono if they're predestined then there’s no hope who those are predestined for hell

Christopher Cunningham There is no hope for us who are saved if it was not for God's mercy Romans 9:21 says God will have mercy on whom he has mercy. Why did not God spare the 7 nations in Duet 7 or the Canaanites who were exterminated?

Christopher Cunningham The bible says in Romans 9 the Israel of God is like the sands of the seashore who God has called out a remnant who will be saved.

Christopher Cunningham Let me ask you this does God know all things beforehand?

Christopher Cunningham Famous Calvinist have preached the gospel whom God used to bring salvation Spurgeon, Tope lady, Whitefield etc.

Christopher Cunningham Unregenerate man will not hear the gospel apart from God he is dead to sin and the wrath abides on him Ephesians 1 Romans 3:9-19 it is God who must transform him to be made willing John 3:5-6 6:37-44 and verse 65.

Don De Bono just cause he know it beforehand done mean he predetermines it. slice n dice it anyway you like, if predestination is true then god has created most people for no purpose other than to send them to 'eternal hell' with no chance of salvation

Christopher Cunningham Man by his carnal mind and heart must be soft to open his eyes to the gospel. It was God who opened the eyes of Lydia in Acts who heard Paul's preaching.


Christopher Cunningham again you have skipped over my argument .Further you said he does not predetermine well the problem is God predetermined to send his son to die before the foundation of the world as it says in Revelations long before man was created.

Christopher Cunningham your argument makes the mis application of Fatalism which is an event that has no purpose or cause. God is the cause and he does have a purpose all his divine glory is shown in the mercy of his people and administrating justice in punishing evil.

Christopher Cunningham That’s in Romans 9:20-23. The riches of his glory is made known in full.

Christopher Cunningham Don I don’t care for philosophical presuppositions as an objection to the doctrine of election the bible is the final authority on the matter. Just cause you don’t like it and see it as unfair does not negate the bible teaches it.

Christopher Cunningham God is sovereign in all things weather nations and kingdoms Daniel 4:35 or salvation Jonah 2:9 Ephesians 2:8-10

Christopher Cunningham you also skipped over Duet 7 and God's dealing with the pagan nations in regards to election and his divine wrath.

 Christopher Cunningham God also chose Israel beforehand as a nation set apart out of all the nations around them. So your saying he can choose Israel out of his own will but he can’t do so in salvation of man?

Don De Bono say what you will, all his purpose is according to you is sending people to hell with no chance of escape.

Christopher Cunningham Don you have not address my arguments and putting words in my mouth by strawmaning and misrepresenting what I said.
Don De Bono I’m not putting words in anyone's mouth im talking about Calvinism as a whole

Christopher Cunningham Yes you are you stated I believe God sends people to hell with no escape and thats not my position or anyone who is a Calvinist would say.
 Christopher Cunningham And I gave you biblical evidence to show it. So dont assume and make claims without biblical evidence.

Christopher Cunningham Merely saying I said something is rhetoric and circular reasoning.

Christopher Cunningham You claimed I had no evidence for my position.

Christopher Cunningham Now stop dodging my arguments and try to address them.

Christopher Cunningham an your whole tirade on hell is addressed in Romans 9:21-23 among other passages.

Don De Bono it’s not the Calvinist position? tell me than simply, how can a person who has been 'predestined to hell' have a chance of escape? and enough of the 10 replies in a row hey?

Christopher Cunningham Your claims were addressed in the passages I posted Don in the previous statements please address those I will not post anymore till you give counter argument.

Don De Bono it’s based on common sense. the bible teaches of a just God of love. This is the God whom Christ revealed. 'Predestined to hell' is a direct contradiction.


Christopher Cunningham God is love yes but you forget he is wrathful and full of anger with the wicked everyday Psalm 5:5 Psalm 7:11 and in vengeance on his enemies 2 Thess 1:8-9. Will he pour out. Isaiah 14:24 Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand. So we see God has a purpose for their destruction even before the foundation of the world if God had his son prepared before the world then his wrath was as well, you cannot get around that.

Don De Bono Yes I do, god is love. God is just. God sent Christ so that whosoever believes... we can play whose verse wins till the cows come home but it’s the overall theme of the NT that takes precedence.

Christopher Cunningham Don you have not answered my scriptures which I believe proved my point Don emotional rhetoric and simple labeling true sound biblical doctrine of predestination as fatalism and hyper Calvinism is not a defense. all I hear is that’s not fair and oh that’s not loving.

Don De Bono no not not fair, just an understanding of the true character of god, which Calvinism misrepresents.

Don De Bono Calvinists makes the mistake of using flawed human reasoning when interpreting the Bible (such as texts like Rom 8.7 Eph 2:1. Col 2:13) which I know are Calvinist cliché verses. Calvinism, I feel, turns faith into a work, which it is not. Romans 10:13 says "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Don De Bono It stands to reason than that whoever is calling on God and is being saved, must have been given the ability to respond to the call from God. The Holy Spirit brings certainty to the soul and supernaturally enables man to respond. God knows who will respond, this doesn’t mean he ‘predestines it’ Verse 17 of the same chapter says “"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. “So obviously when a person hears the word of God, the Lord makes it possible for him to believe and accept it. This does not mean that man is contributing to his own salvation by agreeing to the truth that the Holy Spirit has enabled him to understand.

Christopher Cunningham Don you cannot defend your position and have not. you may claim victory for the mere fact of non-participation but the fact of the matter is you have only proved my point in that man cannot submit in full to God because his flesh and carnal mind do not want to be subjected to it Romans 8:7 so he creates the idol of his freewill that he may boast in his righteousness but as Paul says when the flesh comes under God's control and spirit takes control that is removed and transformed Ezekiel 18:21-31 36:25-26.

Christopher Cunningham Don I have not used human reasoning but have allowed the text to speak for themself. You quote Romans 10 which actually refutes you because God through preaching draws his people to him it does not refute me it actually proves my point that apart from the working of God in declaring the gospel his people cannot be saved whom he will draw.

Christopher Cunningham The same type of phrase is used with Paul preaching to Lydia in which her eyes were opened because God drew her by his spirit and gave her the fullness of truth. Once more Don ad hominems and straw man are not a defense.

Don De Bono If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize, seek to be saved, or even follow God's path?Your traditional Calvinist would proclaim, "Because God told us so!" But if God has already elected those who will be going to heaven, no amount of influence from Christians will change who is elected or not. Evangelism may be the means of how God saves the elect, but our conscience decision to not evangelize will not affect the elect.The interesting counter-argument would be when Calvinists say to non-Calvinists, "But why bother evangelizing... God already knows if a particular person will ever accept the message or not." But, as will be discussed below, this is argument is a fallacy due to the lack of comprehension of time.

Christopher Cunningham I already addressed your argument multiple times over and over with scripture concerning this and anyone else can see I have given evidence. You keep attacking straw man arguments red herrings and attacking me personally. Now are you going to give scripture and not philosophical objections parroted by a typical Arminian?

Don De Bono I have just shown you scripture that refutes you.

Don De Bono If God predestined everything, and then God created sin.
This is where Calvinists disagree among themselves. There are several camps; some that believe every little detail has been predestined, those who believe that God predestined all major events (including salvation), and those who believe that God only predestines those who will be saved. I suppose this point would address the first camp; If indeed God did predestine every little thing, then God did create sin. He caused man to act a specific way knowing in advance what it would lead to.

Christopher Cunningham You gave me one proof text is all. Don I’m not interested in copy and paste from something you found. Engage and defend your position.

Don De Bono what specifically do you want me to defend

Don De Bono it’s not like i could convince you anyways your minds made up, no one convinces anyone on here it’s not the right format for it’s just a soap box

Christopher Cunningham Don you made the charge if you cannot back up your statements with evidence which is what the group is about do not make them as proverbs says those who bring charges without reproof will be as a fool.
Don De Bono really because I find it a poor argument against the whole theme of the bible.

Christopher Cunningham Don what bible evidence did you bring?!

Christopher Cunningham Don since you have nothing worthy to say further in this debate we are finished and I will allow the viewers to decide and read the post.